Episode description:

Shattering Deceptions & Revealing Truth – Seeking a Healthy Out from Trauma – A Conversation with Suicide Preventionists | UHP S4E7

Content Warning: This episode contains discussions about suicide and mental health that some listeners may find distressing. If you or someone you know is struggling or thinking about suicide, please seek support. In Australia, you can contact Lifeline at 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue at 1300 22 4636 for free, confidential help. If you’re outside Australia, please reach out to your local crisis line or visit findahelpline.com for international support services. Listener discretion is advised.

In this moving episode of The Unnecessary Harm Podcast, Shane Varcoe sits down with Rob and Jenny Nichols to discuss suicide prevention and the profound truth that most people contemplating suicide don’t actually want to die – they just want the pain to stop.

Rob is an ASIST Trainer with Living Works, the world’s leading suicide prevention organisation, holding a Bachelor of Science in Psychology, Graduate Diploma in Special Education, and Master’s of Leadership in Ministry and Theology. With decades in disability services, he understands how exclusion leads to substance use and increased suicide risk. Jenny is a celebrated watercolourist who has published Shattering Deception and Revealing Truth, a powerful memoir chronicling her journey through childhood abuse and trauma.

Rob explains that the vast majority of people thinking about suicide have lost hope but hope there could be hope, making community intervention critical. He shares powerful stories from his local barbershop where simple acts of noticing and asking “are you okay?” have saved lives. Jenny candidly shares her own suicide attempts, including a harrowing moment with her daughter that became the turning point toward recovery and counselling. She uses the metaphor of a caged bird living in black and white, not knowing colour exists until the door opens and hope is revealed.

The conversation also traces their individual journeys – Jenny’s childhood marked by her mother’s occult involvement, alcoholism and violence that created constant hypervigilance, and how Rob’s work with people with disabilities taught him the beauty of unashamed vulnerability. In all their journeys and encounters substance use has never been a ‘solution’, but more often than not only adding to the grief and prolonging the inability to find real hope.

Together, they believe in giving people not merely awareness or skill, but a profound path of hope – both the fence at the top of the cliff and the ambulance at the bottom working together.

Additional note: Jenny’s story is explored more deeply in her memoir, Shattering Deception and Revealing Truth, which chronicles her lived experience of trauma, survival, and the journey toward healing and hope. For enquiries about the book, speaking, or availability, please contact Jenny directly at jennylnicholls@gmail.com.